‘Genius’ and ‘greatest achievement in football history’ emerge from ‘brain dead’ Manchester City wreckage
Another day, another raft on Manchester City and their ‘brain dead’ cheating – which has, at least, boosted the legacies of two opponents.
All in favour… I never thought I’d say this but could we have more on Cristiano being a little whinge bag, please? Jaimo
Ask and you shall receive Despite possibly the biggest controversy in the history of English or European football unfolding before our eyes, Manchester City should be ashamed of overshadowing poor old Cristiano Ronaldo (there will only ever be one real Ronaldo) walking out of the Portugal squad. The poor lamb was left on the bench and now “I will inform all of the Portugese why i decided to leave”…the only member of the squad and coaching staff not to applaud the fans after the game.Undoubtedly great player in his day, undoubted b*llend of a man.
Regards Mark Jones, LFC, Liverpool
Give the fans time and space Although my personal thoughts about the Man City case are broadly in line with the majority of recent mails published, I just wanted to take a second to say that we should perhaps give a little more breathing space to Man City fans, and perhaps ex-employees, as they begin to process what has happened to the club that they love / have worked for.
We need to recognise that in many ways the default stance upon hearing something negative about your club is to question its accuracy and to develop a form of siege mentality to deflect criticism in some way.
I think back to how my club initially dealt with the Luis Suarez / Evra affair, making their players wear Suarez t-shirts in the warm-up for their next game (siege mentality). Thankfully, things moved away from that blinkered support as matters became clearer and there was eventually a broad acceptance.
For Man City, in some ways there are parallels to how a victim of a romance scam would react – denial that something is amiss would be the first emotion, followed by anger and frustration at having been deceived, before processing and moving on.
Let’s recognise that Man City fans appear to have been the victims here, so let’s not shout at them – let’s instead try to persuade through reasoned argument.
Over a year ago I had a mail published on the topic of what I thought at the time would be an appropriate punishment for this case as I understood it at the time. My views haven’t changed fundamentally – I am not for the redistribution of the trophies they gleaned and feel any punishment must have a multi-year impact, reflecting the timeframe of the offending – a simple relegation to the EFL would not achieve that goal. Now I am a little clearer on the scale of distortion that appears to have been caused by their actions, I would be a little more firm in what that multi-year punishment should look like, including the wiping of the titles won from the record books – I am in line with a comment made by someone else in the mailbox that this would serve as an ongoing reminder to others about the need to adhere to the rules that entrants have signed up to obey.
To me there is some sense in applying something like a 40 point penalty for each of the next 4 seasons, starting with this one.
The consequence of this is that they would not qualify for Europe this year but would likely avoid relegation. However, the key point is that their higher end players would not be happy to have zero chance of playing in Europe (lets ignore the conceptual headache that would be caused by them winning the CL this year for a second) and as such would likely trigger transfer movement, in theory weakening their squad. This would mean that the challenge of avoiding relegation with the 40 point penalty in the following season would be steeper (but admittedly achievable). I doubt that they would have enough about them to avoid being relegated across the course of the 4 seasons and would also be pretty much locked out of Europe comps for that time.
Now let’s see how long this part of the process drags on for before we get a clearer understanding of the punishment to be applied … Sparky, LFC
City fan here.
What hasn’t been mentioned so far is that, in 2008, City’s Chairman and CEO sent an email to every supporter. The gist of it was this:
“Hey guys, us and the Board have an idea, and it involves us cooking the books BIG style! Upside? We could buy loads of great players and win sh*t tons of trophies. Downside? There’s a teensy-weensy chance that it will lead to the destruction of the Club you love and the end of English football as we know it. What do you think?”
Problem is, my copy seems to have been sent straight to my ‘junk’ folder, so I didn’t get to vote. I’m given to understand however, that the vast majority of my fellow fans said “Yay! Great idea! Let’s do that and sod everybody else!”
As such, and as City fans are equally complicit in what those at top of the club have done, I suggest the following sanctions be added to the many and varied ones already suggested in the mailbox.
· All City fans to have their right ears lopped off, in public, so that any other fan can point and shout “Unclean!”
· City supporters to be publicly flogged and led, naked, through the streets of Merseyside, North London and Salford whilst being pelted with whatever the locals see fit.
· That it be mandatory for any City fan wanting to enter an away ground to be tarred, feathered, and charged £1,000 each for the privilege.
Seems fair to me. I mean, City fans should reap what they’ve sown right? Mark (Can’t wait for the first moral high horse ars*hole to lecture me as to why I should stop supporting my club). MCFC since 1972.
10 Conclusions 1. Jose Mourinho was right. Finishing second in the Premier League with (a not very good) Manchester United, behind (a financially juiced) Manchester City really was a remarkable achievement. 2. Claudio Ranieri deserves a solid gold statue and a spot in the Premier League Hall of Fame. Winning the Premier League with Leicester, and beating both (a financially juiced, according to half the Mailbox) Manchester City and the (also financially juiced, according to the other half) Red Cabal + Chelsea, was the greatest achievement in football history. 3. Jurgen Klopp is a football genius. Imagine what Liverpool could have done with an extra £1 billion in the bank. They could have spent £800 million on Thibaut Courtois, won two more Champions Leagues, and still had plenty left over to buy Florian Wirtz. 4. Pep Guardiola is, after all, a Bald Fraud. Ask anybody who’s played EAFC Career Mode: if you add £1 billion to your finances – over and above your non-cheating finances – then you are obliged to win everything, with a 100% record, every season. (The sad/scary part is, Guardiola really is very good, and could probably have won it all without the financial boost.) 5. English clubs benefitted from City’s cheating. It’s the ugly truth none of the Red Cabal + Chelsea is ready to face. Once we stop trying to decide which English clubs got screwed over the worst (Liverpool? Arsenal? Stoke City on a Saturday afternoon in May?), we’ll realise that England got its extra Champions League spots partly on the back of City’s performances. Domestically, they were robbed. In European competition? Not so much. 6. This is just the tip of the iceberg. We only know about City’s dodgy deals because a hacker shared stolen private information with a newspaper. Imagine, just for a moment, what we DON’T know about what happens behind the scenes in top-level football. 7. City are too big to fail. Juventus bounced back quickly after being relegated, and even Rangers eventually crawled back up the ladder in Scotland. Even if they’re booted out of the Football League entirely and are sent to the very bottom of the amateur pyramid, City will be back. 8. A 60-point penalty sounds like a lot, but it really isn’t. 60 points, right? That’s the number being bandied about in some quarters. But consider this: over the past 10 seasons, the gap between 1st and 20th in the Premier League has never been less than 63 points. Based on historical data and City’s start to the current season, there’s every chance they could take a 60-point penalty and still not finish bottom of the table. They could even take the hit and avoid relegation. That’s how big the gap is now between the Haves and the Have-Nots. 9. Football’s reputation will take years to recover. But only among casual fans. The rest of us are so tribal, so blinkered and so utterly and willfully blind to the obvious corruption of the Premier League, UEFA, FIFA, and the whole rotten lot, that we’ll carry on regardless. 10. Stop wondering which City players will move to which teams. No matter what happens, you know that the good ones will move to Real Madrid on free transfers anyway. – Mark, Cape Town
Rules are rules I wanted to respond to people writing in saying ‘it doesn’t matter that City broke the rules as the rules are unfair!’ and ‘red cartel!’ etc.
The point that other clubs, including City’s natural competition at the time like Everton and Villa, were obeying the rules has been made many times. I’ve also enjoyed the comments around the red cartel being a pretty incompetent cartel all things considered. But even aside from those points, how do you think Arsenal, United and Liverpool got so big? Do you think a nation state bought them a few years before financial fair play rules were introduced and pumped a billion in?
They did not. They all got lucky to some extent – e.g. United and Arsenal are by far the biggest clubs in their respective cities partly thanks to being in a fashionable area – but periods of success came through sustained good management. It took fucking ages. There is nothing stopping other teams from doing this. Indeed, City now have the best youth system in world football. While cheating on the short game they also played the long game. There are no limits on what clubs can spend on youth development or infrastructure. They could have just done that, and they could still be a force by now. They could be playing Olise, Palmer, Foden, Rogers, Lavia, Trafford, Frimpong, Brahim Diaz, Eric Garcia and others who came through their youth system, supplemented by signings they could actually afford. Newcastle’s owners appear to be obeying the rules and committed to a £190m investment in their youth system just last month.
Recent comments from City’s owners (including through Etihad Airways) should be considered aggregating factors which result in even stronger sanctions. They must be kicked out of football forever. Much love Simon Cochrane
I have to respond to Tarqs NUFC and reiterate the point that they did actually break the agreed upon rules. The decision making process for the implementation of FFP was a democratic one, with 13 of the 20 clubs voting to instate it. It is clear the motivation behind it was the big clubs protecting what they had but that is not why most of the other clubs voted for it. The ‘pulling up of the drawbridge’ by the red cartel became a by-product of what the other 10 clubs really actually wanted: to protect themselves from reckless future ownership.
As I said, it was a democratic process and through that same process, if all the other clubs voted to play without goal keepers to make the game more exciting. It wouldn’t be OK for Man City to then field a keeper just because they didn’t vote for it and thought it was unfair to them because they had the best keeper in the league.
I think the clubs who Man City defrauded the most were the clubs of a similar level and not the big teams who missed out on trophies. How many teams got relegated with rich owners who would have loved to plough money into the club but stuck to the rules? How many clubs worked tirelessly to try and increase their revenue, just to see Man City steam roll past them? Whether you agree with the rules are not is inconsequential, they cheated.
They didn’t just ‘level the playing field’, they spent their way to a position of supremacy. Since 2008 Man City were the top or second top spenders in 16 transfer windows. But really there’s no point looking at the transfer fees or wages paid because we do not know the true figures. How many transfers were lower on the books because the agent got paid his fee from a shell company in the middle-east? Mancini gave us some great in-sight to their common double contact approach.
You’d think the way some fans were defending them, the club had used some clever accounting and exploited some legal loop holes. There was nothing clever about this. It was actually kind of brain dead when you think about it, as everyone knows paying off the books will get you found out eventually. They probably had countless meetings and brain storming sessions about how they can compete with the big clubs and the best they could come up with was ‘another mass’ (Father Ted ™).
The irony is they could be finished as a football club which is exactly what the FFP rules were voted in to prevent. – Seamus, Sweden
I read with interest the comments of Tarqs, NUFC.
Full disclosure I am an Arsenal fan, so, if that is disqualifying, please do feel free to stop reading.
Philosophical Debate on Financial Regulation:
I agree with Tarqs, there is a good argument to be made about whether the league (and football more generally) would have been better to continue without FFP, PSR, or SCR, (not considering issues of sportwashing).
We could have a lively debate about whether the concern for football clubs, their sustainability, or their continued existence should trump an owner’s unfettered ability to spend their money as they please and, if the benefactor runs out of money or loses interest, whether is okay to just let the club fail like most other businesses.
Supermajority Voted for Financial Regulation:
Leaving aside UEFA (who vote with an executive committee) and considering only the Premier League, ultimately, a supermajority (2/3rds of the clubs) voted to implement PSR and SCR.
We can debate whether that was the right decision or whether the clubs should be able to restrain trade in that way, but what we can’t debate is that the ‘red cartel’ did not decide the issue.
I agree, Arsenal, Liverpool, United, and Tottenham voted for PSR and SCR for selfish reasons (as you would expect most clubs to do most of the time), but, PSR had the required support of 9 other clubs (with 1 abstention) and SCR had the required support of 10 other clubs.
These smaller by revenue clubs viewed and view PSR and SCR as the lesser of two evils. They are aware that it benefits the established clubs (Arsenal, United, Tottenham, Manchester City (for now), Chelsea, Liverpool), but they viewed that scenario as better than the ‘wild west’ of football finance where either
the club would have to be sold and rely upon a rich benefactor to compete,
they would go into administration trying to compete without a rich benefactor, or,
if they tried to live within their means, they would sink down the leagues, because some clubs would always be willing to have a rich benefactor, if it meant on pitch success.
Historically, all City had to do was swing 1 vote to avoid any PSR rules for the Premier League (UEFA being more difficult with convincing a majority of the executive).
Now, all City, Aston Villa, and Newcastle (or anyone else) have to do is to get to 14 votes, albeit you’d still be subject to UEFA FFP unless you convinced a majority of the executive to repeal FFP.
Newcastle United’s problem is not about the ‘red cartel’ (they do what they always do act in their self-interest), but that unchecked finances are wildly unpopular amongst the other members of the league and have been for nearly 2 decades.
Sympathy:
I sympathize with the frustration of having to sell your best players year on year and to start anew. This is not unique to Aston Villa and Newcastle United, it is an experience that Arsenal fans lived through for more than a decade (albeit for different reasons) and I did at that time wonder what could have been had the squad been allowed to grow together instead of being dismantled every summer.
As a fan, I am with you and Villa fans on that issue, but you cannot defend what City did, despite the problems with the financial rules and the uneven playing field it created and perpetuates.
The Problem with Manchester City’s Actions:
The problem with what Manchester City did (if sustained on appeal), is that it was faced with four legal choices to deal with FFP and PSR coming in, it could:
accept that the rules were going to be put in place and comply even if this hampered their sporting ambitions in the short and medium term; not compete in the premier league (not really viable admittedly); challenge the League’s (and UEFA’s) ability to put into place FFP, PSR, and SCR; or convince enough members of the PL so the rules did not get passed or, after they were passed, that they were repealed (with UEFA it would have had to convince a majority of the executive committee).
It did none of these things.
It told the Premier League and the 19 other member that, while it disagreed, it would abide by the financial rules, but (subject to appeal) it covertly inflated its revenue and decreased its expenses to gain a sporting advantage against not only the ‘red cartel’, but all the other smaller by revenue clubs. I agree the rules were flawed, but it was incumbent on City to challenge them openly, not flout them secretly while playing lip service to compliance. You do not get to disregard competition rules when it suits you. You. You either agree to abide by the rules, challenge the rules, get enough support to ensure they are not enacted or to repeal the rules, or you do not compete in the competition. (If sustained on appeal) Manchester City acted in bad faith against the other 19 members of the competition for a decade to its sole advantage. This is true even though I agree the system is flawed to favour the ‘red cartel’ and is, at best, the lesser of two evils.
P.S. – I favour a salary cap with a hard floor and ceiling and even tv revenue distribution with relegation maintained, but that’s not popular with the clubs (players or agents), so, it won’t pass either. – James
Frankly, I don’t really care if City wriggle their way out of this. It’s smacks of, well, we have money we can do what we want. They are bang to rights, their defence is a carefully crafted lie designed to pressure governing bodies into succumbing to their mite.
Anyone who thinks that City as a brand was worth that much sponsorship is deluded, anyone that thinks they’ve not been funnelling money to managers and players off the books has been drinking the blue coolade for too long.
The arrogance is startling, and if they manage to get off with anything less that a punishment that sends them down the leagues every team in the country should refuse to play them until they f**k off and join a league where rules don’t matter. I’ve got Nothing against the teams Pep built, I think the football has been a revelation, I’ve loved the fact the Liverpool pretty much had their number when they were at the peak of their doped up powers. Keep the trophies by all means, they mean nothing in the wider world of football.
I’m bored of it already, City fans claiming they are standing up for the little guy is a laugh. Guess what building loads of shiny stuff in broken areas is called? Hint, it starts with sports, and ends in washing. Seems like they weren’t doing it for the good of the game after all Tom
Is there anybody out there that naive enough to believe that the players, agents, families and managers did not know cheating was happening? The cheating was systemic at every level of the club and led to the only period of sustained success in their history. – Joel
Potato, potato We are not state backed, we have private owners.
We repeat, we are not state backed, we have private investors.
We won’t tell you again, we are not state backed, we have private investors.
Yes we have lied about the amounts paid by our sponsors and commercial deals but the extra amounts are not from our private investors, they’re from the state.
Doh! – Howard (i do own the gun but the bullets weren’t mine) Jones
How the turn tables I certainly hope it isn’t the same people who were cheering for Man City to beat out Arsenal last year because Artera was “destroying football”, who are calling for Man City’s banishment to the shadow realm now for actually ruining football.
Regards, David
Feeling empty Manchester City have been involved with endemic cheating.
It doesn’t matter that the rules were largely there to preserve the status quo. They can, and should, taker their titles away, fine them, relegate them, sue them, make them stand in the corner wearing a silly hat, whatever (i like the sound of the next five premiership years have 40 points deducted, removed after ten years, or five seasons of prem, but it’ll never happen).
So? We cannot take their status, their fanbase, their memories. Even expulsion from the league? to live the last 20 years city fans have? most of them would take it and City will just do a Wrexham/Rangers while probably filming it for Amazon.
The best thing about Arsenal finally winning after 22 years was the party, the celebration. Don’t get me wrong, the whole season was great, but the pinnacle? The parties at the end. I have friends who follow Palace, Newcastle and Villa and was happy for them to see silverware and memories.
So I have little to no sympathy for the City fans. Yes they were gaslighted and lied to, but they also lived high on the good times of fraud and deceit for 20 years, so screw them and whatever is done to City, their owners and their fans it can never replace the stolen years from the rest of us.
There will be no party, no parade, for a reallocated title or cup, leave the books blank.
I’m enjoying the memes, the jokes and skits, but it’s not the same, I have hugged no strangers, worried about no one hanging precariously from a lamppost with a flare, seen no pubs declare themselves out of beer, have no good excuse to arrive home 5 hours late and very drunk. I just feel empty. Cheated.
Let the emptiness of the record books speak its shame. The last 20 years were a lie and it cannot be Bobby Ewinged. It happened, it’s done. – David, North London
Storytime Let me tell you a story. There was once a club in Scotland named Gretna. Being so close to the border, they actually play their football in England’s 7th tier, in the Northern Premier League. However, in 2002, they are successful in their application to join the Scottish Football League in place of Airdrieonians, who have gone bust.
Millionaire businessman Brooks Mileson begins to heavily invest. They spend way beyond what a normal Scottish 3rd division team could normally do. In 2004–05, they smash the league, with 98 points and 130 goals.
They are promoted to the second division and win it at the first attempt. Incredibly, they also reach the Scottish Cup final, only losing on penalties. This gives them qualification for Europe (which doesn’t go well).
The next season, Gretna enter the Scottish First Division and do it again. Another promotion and they are in the Scottish top flight. From joining the Scottish pyramid to the top flight in a few seasons. It’s an incredible story.
But then the dream collapses. Attendances are tiny. They can’t even play at home because their ground is so small. In 2007 Mileson’s health deteriorates and he stops investing. Gretna’s income is negligible and they stop being able to function. In February 2008 the players stop being paid. In March they go into administration. Then in August 2008 Gretna FC liquidated.
A club founded in 1946 ceases to exist. All because of the arrogance and vanity of one man.
This is why financial fair play exists. It’s not to protect the cartel. It’s to stop madness like the above. While you could argue the rules right now are too tight, that simply doesn’t excuse City’s behaviour. Cheating is cheating, even if you don’t like the rules. – Mike, LFC, Dubai
Mushroom tea Am I the only one sick of mails that are a gazillion words long?
My opinion:
1) City were found to have broken the rules (we’ll see how the appeal goes).
2) Those rules are stupid.
Both things can be true at the same time.
But you can’t just break the rules when everyone else (supposedly) follows them even if those rules are stupid.
I wonder if City will now challenge the validity of those rules and get the whole thing binned – I’m not a lawyer but a mate is and he was babbling some b*llocks about “restraint of trade laws” and judicial review.
To be fair he was f***ing wasted so I don’t know what to make of his word salad. Any lawyers know?
One thing I do know is money talks and this is heading for years of lawyer enrichment before anything of note happens. – Trev (Mushroom Tea and Legal Opinions don’t mix).
Troy f**king Parrott Can we talk about the audacity of west ham to try and bring him to championship?
What a fucking goal. It’s worth the yo*t*be. Megs galore. – Ivor
International broke I bloody hate international football. The World Cup, Euros, Nations League, all of it. To me, all it is, is an opportunity for my team’s players to pick up an injury. Through no fault of the club, they lose an important player (or players) for X number of weeks.
I assume that there are others like me? Stu – Gooner in France (Tzolis is injured, maybe Havertz too. Bugger…)
